Archive for the ‘Emir Caner’ Category

Emir Caner – Salem Baptist Church

March 31, 2014

If you have an interest in the Ergun Caner affair, consider listening to a message Emir Caner delivered in 2013 at Salem Baptist Church (link to page)(link to mp3). You will hear things like “My father’s Turkish, my mother’s Swedish” and “Swedish was my first language, English was my second language.”  I do wish Emir would come out and correct the many errors that we have documented Ergun making (link to documentation).

Then again, if I followed the sermon correctly, it sounded like Emir placed his own disowning by his father close to his conversion, and says he did not see his father for – if I heard correctly – “fourteen” years, which would seem to place Emir’s conversion around 1985, rather than the 1982 mentioned in his book.

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Olive Baptist – September 13, 2009

March 20, 2014

On September 13, 2009, Drs. Emir and Ergun Caner apparently delivered four messages (two each – there was a third speaker who delivered two messages, Paige Patterson) at Olive Baptist:

  • “Contend Earnestly for the Faith” 9:30 AM Service Message Jude 3-4 Dr.Emir Caner (link to mp3)

Emir begins by pointing out that he and Ergun were baptized in the same church (as one another) and called to preach in the same church (as one another).  He then goes on to note that the difference is that Ergun was not born in the U.S., joking that Ergun is an “undocumented worker.”

Emir tells the story of an annoying kid who kept after him until he went to church.

  • “Preachers in the Hands of an Angry God” 11 AM Service Message Jeremiah 28 Dr.Ergun Caner (link to mp3)

0:15 “I’m not real good at fakin’ it.”

I am not sure whether to agree or disagree with this.

1:50 “The only reason that you can understand me, is because God has to constantly break me down. When our family came to this country – Turkish, Immigrant, Yankee, Sunni Muslim, our father raised us with the constant admonition, find a woman, marry a woman who is submissive, who will obey you – and I married a southern belle – that don’t work.”

The only reason you can understand him is because he came to America from Sweden as a toddler and was raised in Ohio.

2:55 “Her father is from Possum Kill, NC”

We have yet to see any evidence that there is such a place.

3:20 “With a name like Ergun Mehmet Caner, Butch”

His real name is Ergun Michael Caner.  His “Butch” nickname apparently goes back to his college days, before he met his wife.

  • “Global Apologetics” 5 PM Service Message [none] Dr.Ergun Caner (link to mp3)

17:10 “When I debate – and all of our debates are free, got to iTunes or whatever and you type in – and you can download all of our debates, they’re all free – but when we debate we have two rules number 1 – nobody gets paid, because what do they say about Christians all the time? it’s always about money – so we do our debates – they sign the contract, I sign the contract and it says nobody gets paid – and the second part of it is, no Christians are allowed to ask me questions, because if a Christian asks me a question, it sometimes smells like a setup.”

We’ve previously discussed (here) the items Dr. Caner had up on iTunes.  They weren’t debates.  Furthermore, as far as I can tell – these were for classes Caner taught at Liberty.  The description, therefore, doesn’t seem to match what we find.

20:30 “I was reached because one kid in high school, loved me for four years the way Christ loved him.”
This suggests Caner was saved as a high school senior, which does not match other accounts of his alleged conversion date, or that of his brother.
20:45 “After I became a Christian, I lost my family – I lost everything I loved and owned – I lost everything in one fell swoop.”
This doesn’t seem very accurate – he seems to have lost only his relationship with his non-custodial father.
21:30 “Jerry came after me for four years. When I finally saw that wall, my name was the last one on his list. And every year he put up a new list, and all of his friends had become Christians except for me.”
Again, notice the “four years.”  Also, compare with Emir’s comments regarding the “annoying kid” which apparently refers to the same Jerry.  Why wasn’t Emir on the list if he was always annoying Emir and if Ergun was saved before Emir?  This doesn’t seem to make much sense.
22:50 “So, I go into places where they hate me, we sign a contract that says nobody gets paid, no Christians can ask me questions …” 
Where are any of these contracts?
47:14 “Here’s a little encouragement for you middle-schoolers and high-schoolers. I was a straight C, graduated with a 2.0, I graduated number 207 out of 404 people. I was in the random middle of my high school class.” 
I question this for a variety of reasons, such as that he seems to have made a similar claim about his undergrad (see here) and because it would be surprising to me if about half the graduating class averaged below a C.

  • “An Audience of One” 6 PM Service Message 1 Kings Dr.Emir Caner (link to mp3)

25:15 “I realize I need to baptize her in Swedish, that’s our native tongue. That’s what she only spoke. She never spoke English in 30 years, living in this country.”

I appreciate that Emir was forthright about the fact that his grandma was Swedish and that his native tongue was Swedish, not “Arabic” or “Turkish” or anything like that.  Still, wouldn’t it be good for Emir to come out and say, “Yes, when Ergun pretended that he speaks Arabic or claimed it was his language before English, he was lying.”

-TurretinFan

When Was Emir Caner Disowned?

June 9, 2010

Listening to Ergun and Emir Caner talking about their reconciliation with their father on his deathbed, I noticed an odd comment from Emir Caner. He indicated that it had been 17 years since Ergun Caner had seen his father, but that it had been “a decade for me” (link to clip). That 7 year difference was quite unexpected. It had been my understanding from numerous other Caner family testimonies that the gap between the conversion of Ergun and Emir was not more than about a year, and that both the brothers were disowned not later than late November 1982.

It was at that point that I noticed that the Caner brothers’ book, Unveling Islam, has this interestingly worded passage at page 19:

In 1982, Ergun surrendered to the gospel ministry. It was the last time he saw our father for seventeen years. Acar disowned his sons, although it could have been worse: according to hadith 9.57, all three of us brothers should have been killed.

Tragedies and Commitments

Seventeen years later, we Caner brothers were reunited with our father, four days before he died. His second wife had convinced him to see us, and we flew in from all over the country, hoping.

The book never actually states that Emir was disowned in 1982, though one gets that impression. One wonders whether the Caners’ father disowned them because of the conversion itself or because they indicated that they were called to the ministry. It would be interesting to ask Emir Caner to clarify this matter, if he would be willing to do so.

– TurretinFan

Emir Caner’s Odd Description of the Kaaba

June 9, 2010

Listening to Ergun and Emir talking about Islam, I came across a very odd description of the Kaaba. In the clip, Emir calls it a 30 foot by 50 foot stone (link to clip). The kaaba is a building, made of granite and usually covered in black cloth. It is made from stone, but not a single stone. There is a famous black stone there, at one corner of the Kaaba. Muslim pilgrims often try to kiss that stone, although apparently kissing the stone is optional. The black stone itself is relatively small, and was broken into pieces in the middle ages. The stone is said to be about 1 foot in diameter.

-TurretinFan

Haram Koran Handling?

May 28, 2010

The July 2, 2002, Associated Press article about the Caner brothers provides a very touching portion that shows the love of Acar for his sons, despite their departure from Islam (Republication of Article here).

Sitting in his office on the picturesque Southeastern campus at Wake Forest, Emir Caner flips open the cover of a thick blue book. It is the Quran his father, Acar, presented him from his deathbed in 1999.

“To my son Emir,” reads the inscription on the first page. “This is yours. Please take the time and read each word for you and for me. Your father.”

Let me anticipate one objection. Someone may say that this shows that Acar Caner did not completely disown his sons, because he still refers to Emir as “my son” and calls himself “Your father.” To me, that’s a trivial objection. All it shows to me is that he still loved his sons.

But there are two other things that cause me to raise my eyebrows. Acar Caner has been presented as an exceptionally devout Muslim. Perhaps one of my Muslim readers will be able to tell me whether (1) giving a Koran to a non-Muslim is permitted and (2) writing in a Koran is permitted.

I don’t claim to be a Islamic scholar, but both of those things strike me as inconsistent with the strictest and most devout forms of Islam. The rituals associated both with handling and reciting the Koran involve a large amount of outward purity. Giving the book to a non-Muslim (particularly an apostate Muslim) or writing in the book, just intuitively seem to be at odds with the kind of precautions Muslims are supposed to take with respect to the Koran (see some examples here). Perhaps one or more of my Muslim readers will be able to clarify this for me.

-TurretinFan


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