Archive for the ‘Debates’ Category

James White: The Same Sex Marriage Debate vs Codrington

November 3, 2015

Dr. White debated Graeme Codrington on the topic of same sex marriage (link to debate on SermonAudio). I agreed with Codrington that Dr. White did an excellent job defending the “traditional” view. I wanted to mention a few points that occurred to me in listening to the debate, while encouraging you, my reader, to go listen to the debate for yourself. Also check out the related debate that I mention in my comments below.

1) Heteronomative Scripture
Dr. White made a good point in the debate that it’s more than just the “six verses” that specifically call out homosexual practices as sin. Instead, the remainder of Scripture provides a positive presentation regarding sexuality. That positive presentation makes heterosexual relations the norm. That’s an important point, because it frames the issue. Within the context of Scripture, the pattern is “husband and wife” not simply life partners.

2) Patriarchal Scripture
Codrington raised the point that Scriptures present a patriarchal model in which there is male headship and even male ownership of wives and children. I noticed a similar issue arise in the debate between Jason Wallace and Scott Dalgarno (link to youtube video of that debate). One thing we need to be prepared to do is to confound Codrington and Dalgarno by affirming that the Biblical norm of patriarchy. Basic consistency does demand this from us – if we are going to affirm the creation ordinance of heterosexual marriage, we should also affirm the creation ordinance of how that heterosexual marriage is to be ordered. There is a sort of perverse consistency to Codrington and Dalgarno rejecting the Biblical norm of heterosexuality, given that they have already rejected the Biblical norm of patriarchy. If Biblical norms for the ordering of society matter, we should hold the. If they don’t matter, we shouldn’t insist on them.

3) Ownership of Humans in Scripture
Codrington and Dalgarno raised the ubiquitous objection that Scripture doesn’t condemn slavery. Again, we need to be prepared to confound these men by affirming the Scripture’s position. We are “bought with a price” (1 Cor 6:20 and 7:23). We are slaves of Jesus, our master. He owns us. We are his property. We are not absolutely opposed to slavery on Enlightenment grounds, even though we are opposed to any form of slavery that is based on denying the full humanity of people based on their skin color or the like. We recognize that the Bible affirmed that slaves were the property of their masters (e.g. Exodus 21:20-21 And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.). Thus, we don’t agree with the idea that it is somehow intrinsically immoral for a man to own another man, even though we recognize limitations on that ownership (see the same verses above).

Both Codrington and Dalgarno seem to take for granted that the Bible was wrong on the relationship of masters and slaves, husbands and wives, and parents and children. The “liberal church” has certainly begun to take those debates for granted. We need to be ready to shock them by affirming that the Bible was right on those things.

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Formal Debates – Index

March 14, 2014

Formal Oral Debates

Hell
1. “Some people will not be saved from their sins according to the following passages and their contexts: 2 Thess. 1:9, Matt. 25:41/46, Matt. 18:8, Romans 9:22 and Jude 1:6.” (T-Fan affirmative vs. Jason Pratt) (part 1)(part 2)(part 3)
2. “Unsaved humans will suffer everlasting conscious torment.” (T-Fan negative vs. Ronnie)(part 1)(part 2)

Calvinism
1. “The Bible Teaches Libertarian Free Will” (T-Fan negative vs. Dan Chapa)(google docs with mp3)
2. “The Hardening of Pharaoh’s Heart” (T-Fan arguing Calvinistic side vs. Louis Ruggiero aka LouRugg)(wma version)(mp3 version)

Roman Catholicism
– With Dan Marcum – Purgatory Debate (mp3)

– With William Albrecht aka GNRHead:

     Marian Debates

  1. Assumption of Mary Debate
  2. Immaculate Conception Debate
  3. Mother of God Debate
  4. Perpetual Virginity Debate
  5. Veneration of Mary Debate (transcript)(main page)(Follow-Up Part 1)(Part 2)(Part 3)(Part 4)(Part 5)(Part 6)(Part 7)(Part 8)
  6. Is Marian Devotion Intrinsic to Christian Worship? (page with embedded version)

    Other Debates

  1. Latria-Dulia Debate (transcript)
  2. Veneration of Images Debate (main page – with follow-up)(further follow-up)
  3. Augustine Transubstantiation Debate
  4. Purgatory Debate
  5. Canon Debate (main page)(second main page)
  6. Papal Infallibility Debate (main page)
  7. Sola Scriptura and Unity Debate (main page)
  8. Sola Fide Debate (main page)
  9. Is the Apocrypha God’s Word? (page with embedded version)
    Formal Written Debates

    1. Sola Scriptura vs. Roman Catholicism (vs. Matthew Bellisario)(index page)
    2. Sola Scriptura vs. Eastern Orthodoxy (vs. “Orthodox”)(tagged pages on debate blog)
    3. Holy Water Debate (vs. PhatCatholic aka Nicholas Hardesty)(tagged pages on debate blog)
    4. Genuine Christian Apostasy Debate (T-Fan negative vs. J.C. Thibodaux)(tagged pages on debate blog)
    5. Atonement Debate (vs. “Catholic Nick”)(tagged pages on debate blog)
    6. Regulative Principled debate (vs. Centuri0n aka Frank Turk)(tagged pages at Cent’s debate blog)


    -TurretinFan

    Free Debates Featuring James White

    April 11, 2013

    I was reluctant to post this list, because I’m concerned that people who might otherwise support Dr. White’s ministry by buying copies of the debates will just watch them for free.  However, I trust that people who would support Dr. White’s ministry by buying his debates will consider doing so in some other way, since his ministry is reliant on support of Christians who support what he’s doing.

    Moreover, keep in mind that the debates below represent less than a quarter of the debates Dr. White has done.  (see here for a list of debates you can get at store.aomin.org – that list may need to be updated at some point)

    1. David Bernard vs. James White, “Are Tongues Necessary?” (informal radio debate on WMCA radio in New York, circa August 18, 2003) (mp3) (Audio-only on Youtube part 1/5)(part 2/5)(part 3/5)(part 4/5)(part 5/5)
    2. Jack Moorman vs. James White, “Should we Exclusively Use the King James Bible?” (television debate on Revelation TV, February 2, 2011) (Youtube)
    3. Jalal Abualrub vs. James White, “Is Jesus Christ God?” (March 2008) (Youtube – Part 1)(Youtube – Part 2)
    4. Nadir Ahmed vs. James White, “Can We Trust What the New Testament Tells Us about Jesus and the Gospel?” (March 21, 2008) (Youtube)
    5. Ehteshaam Gulam vs. James White, “Jesus:  A Prophet of Allah or Divine Son of God?” (June 21, 2010) (Youtube)
    6. Robert Fastiggi vs. James White, “The Doctrine of Mary Debate” (Youtube – part 1)(part 2)(part 3)(part 4)(part 5)(part 6)(part 7)(part 8)(part 9)
    7. Robert Fastiggi vs. James White, “Indulgences Debate” (Youtube)
    8. Abdullah al Andalusi vs. James White, “The Big Trinity Debate” (Youtube – part 1)(part 2)(part 3)
    9. Abdullah al Andalusi vs. James White, “Does the Trinity Equal Polytheism?” (The “Unbelievable” radio show on Premier Christian Radio)(Youtube – video)
    10. Robert Fastiggi vs. James White, “Papal Infallibility Debate” (Youtube)
    11. James White vs. Adnan Rashid, “Did Jesus & Mohammed preach the same thing?” (Trinity College) (Youtube – Part 1)(Youtube – Part 2)
    12. James White vs. Adnan Rashid “Bible or the Qur’an?” (UCD, Ireland) (Youtube – Part 1) (Youtube – Part 2)
    13. NT Wright vs. James White “St. Paul and Justification” (Unbelievable Radio) (Youtube)
    14. James White vs Shabir Ally – Did Jesus Claim Deity? (2012) (Youtube)
    15. Shabir Ally vs James White – “Is the Bible the inspired Word Of God” (Youtube)
    16. James White vs. Robert Sungenis “Predestination Debate 2010” (part 1)(part 2)(part 3)(part 4)(part 5)(part 6)(part 7)(part 8)(part 9)(part 10)(part 11)
    17. James White vs. Robert Sungenis “Purgatory Debate 2010” (part 1)(part 2)
    18. James White vs. Robert Sungenis “Papal Infallibility Debate” (Youtube)
    19. James White vs. Robert Sungenis “Is the Roman Mass a Propitiatory Sacrifice” (Youtube)
    20. James White vs. Robert Sungenis “Assumption Debate 2010” (part 1)(part 2)(part 3)(part 4)(part 5)(part 6)(part 7)(part 8)(part 9)(part 10)(part 11)
    21. Dr. James White – Two Different Views on Hell Debated (Unbelievable Radio Program) (Youtube)
    22. James White vs Zakir Hussain “Is Muhammed Prophesied in the Bible?” (Youtube)
    23. James White vs. Sami Zaatari “Was Jesus Crucified?” (Youtube)
    24. Dr. Anthony Buzzard vs Dr. James White “Is Jesus God?” (part 1) (part 2) (part 3)
    25. Daniel Peterson/William Hamblin vs. James White (Mormonism topic) (Youtube Playlist)

    Annihilationism / "Conditionalism" Debate

    November 26, 2011

    I recently debated the topic of Annihilationism in the specific form of “Conditionalism.”  The debate can found in two sections (link to first part)(link to second part). Thanks very much to Chris Date (the moderator) as well as to Ronnie (my opponent) for this debate.

    Ergun Caner Debate Challenge from Adnan Rashid

    November 3, 2011

    Adnan Rashid has issued a debate challenge to Ergun Caner.  The point of the challenge, presumably, is to demonstrate Dr. Caner’s alleged personal lack of knowledge regarding Islam.  This blog has previously noted a number of errors in Dr. Caner’s presentations on Islam.  However, I am not sure what particular value there would be to a debate whose central purpose is to establish or debunk the credibility of one of the debaters.  Nevertheless, if Dr. Caner considers himself an expert on Islam, and thinks he can demonstrate that, this debate challenge provides an opportunity for him to do so.

    Adnan uses an interesting turn of phrase in describing Caner’s books.  He states: “you have claimed authorship of several books against Islam, such as ‘Unveiling Islam’ and ‘More than a Prophet’.”  I wonder whether Adnan is trying to suggest that Caner only claims authorship but did not actually write those books. Adnan further accuses Dr. Caner of presenting a “deliberately distorted caricatured picture of our way of life.”

    Adnan Rashid is an experienced Muslim debater who has debated some of the prominent Christian debaters in Muslim apologetics: Jay Smith, David Wood, and James White.  Ultimately, my advice to Dr. Caner would be not to take the debate challenge.  While Dr. Caner is an experienced speaker and could doubtless provide an entertaining performance, it may be better for Dr. Caner to leave the debating to people who have that gift.

    -TurretinFan

    James White vs. Abdullah Kunde – Can God Become a Man?

    October 18, 2011

    One person has provided a summary of the debate that recently took place in Australia between Dr. James White and Abdullah Kunde.  (link to summary)  The topic of the debate was, “Can God Become a Man?”  It’s not a transcript of the debate, but there is a lot of detail provided.

    – TurretinFan

    Debate Announcement – Conditionalism Debate

    September 25, 2011

    Lord willing, I will be debating Ronnie of Consuming Fire on the topic of what he calls “Conditionalism”  (Debate announcement and chance to submit “audience questions” here.), which evidently holds to the idea that those in hell will eventually be consumed by the fire there (leading others to describe it as “annihilationism”).

    Debate Announcement

    September 16, 2011

    Lord willing, in October, I will be engaged in a debate with a self-styled “Evangelical Universalist.” (Here’s the announcement.) It is important to distinguish the “Evangelical” Universalists from other kinds, despite the fact that it is not usual to think of Universalists as evangelical. At the announcement link you will find a place where you can, in advance of the debate, leave an “audience” for either my esteemed opponent or myself. Please pray that the debate will edify the people of God and promote the truth. -TurretinFan

    Sola Fide Debate – William Albrecht

    September 13, 2011

    William Albrecht and I recently debated the topic of Sola Fide (link to mp3).  I hope it will be edifying.  I ended up sticking pretty closely to my previously planned affirmative constructive (link to text of affirmative constructive).  I only used a little material from my previously planned affirmative rebuttal, because although Mr. Albrecht threw out a few unsupported assertions regarding the historical record, he claimed he was not going to address the issue (link to text of planned affirmative rebuttal).

    A Quick Comment on the Fastigi Infallibility

    May 5, 2011

    The Fastigi vs. White debate took place a number of years ago. I was listening to it today and happened to notice the quotation that is described by Fastigi as the culmination of patristic quotations in favor of papal infallibility. And what was that quotation? It was Chalcedon’s comment, which I have already fully explained, “Peter has spoken (to us) through Leo.” (parenthetical in Fastigi’s quotation) If that’s the best that’s out there, there really isn’t much Rome has to offer by way of historical evidence to support its historical assertions.


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