Judgment on Haiti (?)

Someone has claimed that Haiti’s disaster is due to the fact that they made a pact with the devil many years ago. The basic idea that they (or some small group of revolutionaries long ago) made a pact with the devil (or some evil spirit) is not necessarily incredible. It’s also not incredible that this is the judgment of God on the nation of Haiti. However, there’s no good reason to pick out that particular sin as the cause of this judgment. Why not pick out Haiti’s particularly loathsome treatment of children (link to report). There are lots of possibilities. It may well be God’s judgment. While calamities like this can be and, in Scripture, frequently are the judgment of God, it may be something else. Recall Job. We should not be quick to judge Haiti, but those in Haiti ought seriously to consider why God brought this, and if they find sin, they ought to repent of it.

– TurretinFan

36 Responses to “Judgment on Haiti (?)”

  1. natamllc Says:

    I had personal experience with both the Dominican Republic and Haiti at their high levels years ago.I was back in Washington D.C. attending some meetings on one of those trips one time and staying at a friends home, as I typically did back in those days when visiting the Nation's Capital. This house was just inside the beltway. I would drive downtown from this house well enough.My friend hosted folks like me.On this particular occasion another guest came to stay. They had just flown in from Port-au-Prince with personal documentation, color photos and the prima facia evidences they were going to bring before the U.S. Senate Intelligence Committee later in the week at the Hart building.I got to see and read a lot of what was happening to Christians in Haiti during those terrible days when Aristide was in power.What I could explain here would not be pretty. On the other hand, in comparison, the Dominician Republic seemed to be of a different persuasion and it is a much cleaner place with more civil rule than Haiti. For those who don't know, these two countries share on big Island.For what it's worth, I am inclined to agree with your assessment of things hereon and leaning more to the side of Godly judgment than as a normal act of nature or man caused global warming.I was reading somewhere earlier in the day that a celeb thought the cause of that earthquake had direct connections to global warming.Oh well, earthquakes, for whatever reason or caused by whomever, are Biblical!Why we just experienced our own 6.5 quake here on the Northcoast of California and I was actually in a place of spiritual prayer when it rolled, rattled, shook and jolted the ground.I watched Paintings come off the walls, things were knocked over and dropping off the harth of my fireplace, the cat and birds were going nuts and it was a complete mess in every room of my house in a matter of seconds!I thought to myself just moments afterwards: "geeesh, what was I praying that You should answer me that way, Lord?" :)

  2. Anonymous Says:

    And we ought to repent of our own sins, lest we also likewise perish. Godith

  3. David Says:

    You are a sick person. This post alone shows how far the pseudo-pagan philosophy of Calvinism removes a person from the truth of God in Christ. As tens of thousands of people suffer, die, and mourn you sit it in your safety, a safety purchased at the price of the blood and suffering of others, behind your computer desk and spit on them all over again. What the hell is wrong with you? There is nothing of God here.

  4. Turretinfan Says:

    David,In your fantasy world (in which you can curse and pretend to speak for God in the same comment), who brought the earthquake?-TurretinFan

  5. John Bugay Says:

    David, I would urge you to reconsider your response, and try to look at this post in the spirit with which it was intended.

  6. Turretinfan Says:

    John:Your calm response is admirable, but you have to remember that this is the same guy who tried to accuse Calvinism of being a Gnostic sect. Judge for yourself whether he really cares for the truth.-TurretinFan

  7. John Bugay Says:

    Oh… I was unfamiliar with the history of it…

  8. Turretinfan Says:

    He has a whole post demonstrating his heart on this subject here: (link).

  9. Anonymous Says:

    In all honesty, I find a bit of the attitudes posted on this site to smack of extreme arrogance. It reminds me of the attitude of the Puritans to the death of the Indians by smallpox – They thanked God for wiping the Indians out so that the Puritans could move in and take over already prepared agricultural land. My Church teaches that God does not smite those out of anger, but instead attempts to correct those who have erred in order to bring them to Himself. Speaking for God and determining that this disaster in Haiti is really retribution for the sins of the people is to me a strange attitude and does not fit with the description that God gives of Himself…if He is Love, then how does such an action as retribution in Haiti reflect that? Would we not be better in all humility to leave the reason behind the earthquake to God's own judgment rather than our own and instead simply follow the injunction to pray for our fellow men?- Jason

  10. Turretinfan Says:

    "Speaking for God and determining that this disaster in Haiti is really retribution for the sins of the people is to me a strange attitude and does not fit with the description that God gives of Himself…if He is Love, then how does such an action as retribution in Haiti reflect that?"a) Love is not God's only description of himself.b) Recall, among many other examples that I could give, Sodom. Do you deny that God brought that judgment? If you do not deny it, why would it be inconsistent with his character to bring this as judgment.c) Who brought this earthquake, if not God?"Would we not be better in all humility to leave the reason behind the earthquake to God's own judgment rather than our own and instead simply follow the injunction to pray for our fellow men?"a) If you read my post as suggesting that we need to try to figure out the reason for the earthquake, or that we can know for sure that it is judgment, you read my post wrong.b) But, we should take the opportunity to look at this event and remember that Judgment Day is coming for all of us (as I pointed out in the second part of this discussion).c) If all we are supposed to be doing is praying for other people (and I agree that we should be praying for other people), then it would seem odd to spend your time passing judgment on bloggers and posting your judgment to comment boxes, don't you think? Of course, since I don't agree with your premise, I appreciate your comments.-TurretinFan

  11. steve Says:

    I take it from David's comments that Eastern Orthodoxy takes the same position on the problem of natural evil as Rabbi Kushner. David is apparently a neo-Manichean. He thinks there are to ultimate and opposing principles in the universe. God is responsible for all the good stuff, but another god or gods (e.g. Gaia) is responsible for bad stuff like natural disasters. And if we don't subscribe to his cosmic dualism, he calls that "sick."

  12. Anonymous Says:

    Steve, I think you have falsely accused David. No where does he imply anything like what you say. He is looking at the condition of your hearts based on the "fruit" and stating that the tree is rotten. Well, rotten theology will lead to rotten fruit. I agree with David that there is something wrong with a heart that if Christian should reflect the fruits of the spirit (Galatians 22-23) rather than such "righteous judgment." You are so quick to judge or try to find the reason for this disaster that you cannot see your own judgment is twisted and fallen. If we are called to humility by Christ, who is it that calls you and some of the others to judge the people of Haiti and to determine you understand the mind of God well enough to determine the reason behind the earthquake. Really, you would do better to reflect back on your own hearts and your own sins, and save judgment of Haiti and David for God.- Jason

  13. Turretinfan Says:

    Jason,Please answer my questions posed to you above before passing judgment on more people in this comment box.-TurretinFan

  14. MichaelConners Says:

    If indeed the Haiti earthquake was a judgment of God I believe that there would be no survivors.

  15. Turretinfan Says:

    Why do you believe that? There were eight survivor of the great flood.

  16. steve Says:

    Anonymous said…“Steve, I think you have falsely accused David. No where does he imply anything like what you say.”Really? In reference to the Haitian earthquake, he categorically said: “There is nothing of God here.”So he completely distances God from the earthquake, as if God had nothing to do with it, directly or indirectly. So how is his statement distinguishable from Rabbi Kushner’s? “He is looking at the condition of your hearts based on the ‘fruit’ and stating that the tree is rotten.”Since he doesn’t know any of us personally, how would he be in any position to play the role of spiritual fruit-inspector? How does he know what any of us are doing when we’re offline?“You are so quick to judge or try to find the reason for this disaster that you cannot see your own judgment is twisted and fallen.”i) The way you try to turn things around is quite revealing. David was the one who was very judgmental: “You are a sick person. This post alone shows how far the pseudo-pagan philosophy of Calvinism removes a person from the truth of God in Christ. As tens of thousands of people suffer, die, and mourn you sit it in your safety, a safety purchased at the price of the blood and suffering of others, behind your computer desk and spit on them all over again. What the hell is wrong with you?” What does it say about your own partisanship that you turn a blind eye to his judgmentalism why you’re quick to accuse others of the same (alleged) fault?ii) Quote where I’ve been quick to find the reason for this disaster.“If we are called to humility by Christ, who is it that calls you and some of the others to judge the people of Haiti and to determine you understand the mind of God well enough to determine the reason behind the earthquake.”Once again, quote where I “determined the reason behind the earthquake.”For someone who presumes to charge me with lodging a false accusation, it’s striking to see the freedom with which you indulge in the very practice that you find fault with in others. “Really, you would do better to reflect back on your own hearts and your own sins, and save judgment of Haiti and David for God.”Really, you would do better to start taking your own advice for a change.

  17. Lucian Says:

    Steve, David has yet to post an article praising God for any of TurretinFan's misfortunes. Until he does that, your argument is moot.As an aside, I also called Jason despiccable and disgusting once. And got banned on this blog twice.

  18. Turretinfan Says:

    What an unusual standard, Lucian.

  19. Lucian Says:

    Why? What's wrong with it?

  20. Turretinfan Says:

    I'm not sure why it would be necessary for David to praise God for anyone's misfortunes (much less mine specifically) for Steve's comments to be valid.

  21. Lucian Says:

    Because your post isn't about Haitians being sinful (all men are sinners, so your logic is convoluted), nor is it about presenting a tragedy.

  22. Turretinfan Says:

    Why you think those comments are relevant is unclear to me. Had not Pat Robertson misspoken about this disaster, I probably would not have taken the chance to correct his error.

  23. natamllc Says:

    Well,besides me, is there any of you commentors commenting in here that have had any personal experience with Haiti?When I ponder these Words from the Prophet Isaiah and think back at what things I saw and read and know about Haiti, I see that as God did to the Jews back then, so He has done here too:::>Isa 47:8 Now therefore hear this, you lover of pleasures, who sit securely, who say in your heart, "I am, and there is no one besides me; I shall not sit as a widow or know the loss of children": Isa 47:9 These two things shall come to you in a moment, in one day; the loss of children and widowhood shall come upon you in full measure, in spite of your many sorceries and the great power of your enchantments. Isa 47:10 You felt secure in your wickedness, you said, "No one sees me"; your wisdom and your knowledge led you astray, and you said in your heart, "I am, and there is no one besides me." Isa 47:11 But evil shall come upon you, which you will not know how to charm away; disaster shall fall upon you, for which you will not be able to atone; and ruin shall come upon you suddenly, of which you know nothing.

  24. Lee Shelton IV Says:

    As for the earthquake being an example of God's judgment, I tend to look at it in light of Jesus' words in Luke 13: "No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish."But I also have another perspective. My wife and I are in the process of adopting a brother and sister from Haiti, and as a result of the quake they are traveling here much sooner than they otherwise would have. God's judgment or not, we certainly see the blessing in the midst of all the pain and suffering.

  25. Turretinfan Says:

    LS4:As to the first part, I agree and I brought that out in the next post (link).As to the second part, I'm glad to hear that good aspect to the event.

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